Talk:Damage/Archive 1

The following discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it.

Weapon naming

Every weapon is referred to by its group "like Rocket Launchers, Stickybomb Launchers" except for "the Rocket Launcher and Direct Hit" where weapons are named specifically.

Maybe change it to "like Rocket Launchers"?

Alternately, include each weapon type "Rocket Launchers, Sticky Launchers and Syringe Guns"?). This is assuming that these weapons do determine distance on impact. This group of weapons is the same as that in the section on reduced ramp-ups, so maybe move this section to there? Mechlord 06:03, 15 September 2010 (UTC)

Kind of a related topic here, a lot of terms in this article (Rocket Launchers, Syringe Guns, Flamethrowers and so forth) are used to describe groups of weapons with similar properties. However, the links direct only to one weapon from those groups, usually the vanilla one. For example, "Rocket Launchers" links to the Soldier's default Rocket Launcher, thereby suggesting (incorrectly) that the Direct Hit and Black Box are not affected by these mechanics. I suggest creating disambiguation pages for the different "weapon categories", and linking to those instead. Zoon-li 00:56, 7 March 2011 (UTC)

Building damage/damage to buildings

I feel that there should be some reference to Buildings and how they receive/deal damage, like a short blurb with a link to the Buildings main article. --Aranarth 00:28, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

Hunstman & Crusaders Crossbow

What type of damage do they do? The Unbeholden 07:10, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

AFAIK The Huntsman has no damage Ramp-up/Fall-off and The Crusader's Crossbow does reversed Ramp-up/Fall-off. (does more damage at long range, and less damage up close.) TheIgnorantMedic 02:33, 2 June 2012 (PDT)

Practical example or video demonstration

I was wondering if a practical example (e.g. "A Soldier on the Balcony of 2Fort fires a rocket aimed at a Scout in the middle of the bridge roof...") or even better a video like the weapon demonstrations could help understand better the article for non-english readers (therefore helping the translation).--Kid Of The Century 07:18, 1 April 2011 (UTC)

About the calculation of Damage vulnerability, resistance and blocking

In the final example, how does the last result come out (42.8% resistance to sentry bullets)? I'm bad at math, anyone can demonstrate the process for me? Thanks for help. Jcmbmhitacid 08:21, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

1. Start with taking 100% damage from an attack.
2. Tank Buster set: 20% resistance. 100% * (100% - 20%) = 80%
3. Pain Train: 10% weakness. 80% * (100% + 10%) = 88%
4. Battalion's Backup: 35% resistance. 88% * (100% - 35%) = 57.2%
5. Taking 57.2% of the damage from attack means you resist 42.8% of it.

Toomai Glittershine 11:22, 23 July 2011 (PDT)

Damage type icons

I think it might be useful to put some icons on weapon pages representing what types of damage they do, seeing as some of them are non-obvious. So I went through all the damage types in the Source engine and threw together this prototype. Would this be helpful? Toomai Glittershine 11:22, 23 July 2011 (PDT)

I'm confused. – Smashman _(talk) 08:19, 24 July 2011 (PDT)

We ought to indicate which damage types (bleed, bullet, explosive, fire, melee, and typeless) each weapon deals. The bison seems to deal typeless damage, for example, which is a little odd. Toomai is suggesting that we come up with an icon system to indicate damage types, and use them on the weapon pages. I don't particularly like the icons provided, but I think it's a good idea. — Armisael 14:11, 5 August 2011 (PDT)

Yeah, that's pretty much what I was getting it. Toomai Glittershine 08:35, 24 August 2011 (PDT)

I think it's a good idea, particularly since some weapons don't deal the kind of damage you'd expect them to (like how melee damage was typed as bullet damage for a while). ==Fax Celestis _talkcontrib^home 08:52, 24 August 2011 (PDT)

I think it's fairly obvious what damage 'type' most weapons deliver. For the likes of the Bison, though, perhaps it should be specified on its page that it is a specialised type on its own.--Focusknock 08:03, 28 August 2011 (PDT)

It certainly couldn't hurt. Add it, I say! Randomscripter 13:03, 17 December 2011 (PST)

I agree with Focusknock. But true it won't hurt to add more details. Maybe to put in on item infobox only. BenMQ 03:36, 12 January 2012 (PST)

This is really important now with the Vaccinator. I believe the Syringe Gun does bullet damage, but I can't be sure. --Randomtagger 10:06, 1 February 2013 (PST)

 Support This is absoulutly needed. in all honesty, this should have been around BEFORE the vaccinator was implemented. You know how some items (chargin' targe, candy cane) have resisitences and vulnerabilities? Exactly, Damage types. Super? Prototype 08:06, 19 April 2013 (PDT)

It's been like 3 years now so I'll go out on a limb and say the answer is no. --Piemanmoo 01:20, 8 June 2014 (PDT)

 Support It might come VERY handy. DiamondCubeMiner (talk) 00:06, 27 January 2015 (PST)

Well, I have made some clean-y and with TF2 Style icons with the types: http://imgur.com/a/zcObX ~ Most of the pages list the weapon types on the table, though, the Bison and Pomson list as "Untyped", I need to test what type they're, they might be bullet type, or they can be a totally new one, which we can name as Laser Type (?). I also need someone to edit the infobox template to add these, I was thinking something like: "Weapon Damage Type: (Icon here) (Explosive/Bullet/Melee/Fire here)", and something for extra ones if needed (like the Team Captain team colors for each class), for additional information, such as the Cow Mangler critical effect, or the Atomizer third jump that is actually a bullet type damage. I want critics on the icon, I'm fairly new on vectoring (this was my second time vectoring things). If it gets supported, I'll investigate the few weapons that has no damage type listed on the table and get the job done with this, though, only thing that needs an infobox edit OR a dictionary for these (like the Quality list). ▪ - 10:01, 25 March 2015 (PDT)

The fire icon looks odd to me, and the color should be one of the colors used on the wiki. As far as types go, I believe the bison is actually typeless damage, as in there is no damage type associated with it. What do you plan to do for critical damage? I'd suggest a red background, similar to the one used in the killfeed.

Qualities use a dictionary because they display origin. This information (much like damage numbers) should probably be hard-coded into the page. Darkid (Talk | Contribs) 11:15, 25 March 2015 (PDT)

I didn't liked the fire icon either, I can try remaking it later. Making the icon #F3A957 and the background as #EEE8AA would be good? I was thinking to make an icon for special (A star) for those weapons that has no damage type associated. Also, do you think that 50x50 would be the image size for those (on the infobox)? So I save the vector directly as 50x50 to retain quality. ▪ - 11:33, 25 March 2015 (PDT)

Maximum Distance

Should there be a mention as to the maximum distance which bullets can travel? Cause there is a maximum distance that bullets can fly. Go to a ridiculously large map, and try to snipe something far away, you wont hit it.Nibelhim 06:39, 27 September 2011 (PDT)

Mini-crits damage formula

On the 'Critical hits' article, it is mentioned mini-crits "ensure a weapon does at least 135% of its base damage". However, by the mini-crit damage formula given, it's not made clear if it really works that way. It gives the impression, at least to me, that if the attacker is 512 units or more away from his target, the damage done can be actually less than 135% of a weapon's base damage.

The reason is that, in such a case, the distance between the attacker and target is initially set to be 512 units, and so, by then applying the +- 153.6 distance modifier, there's a chance the game considers the attacker to be up to 153.6 units further than 512 units away. Only after these calculations it multiplies the final damage, which may be less than the base damage, by 135%.

Anohter issue is about the mini-crit damage listed on pretty much every weapon's infobox. It gives the base damage multiplied by 135% as the only possible value, when a mini-crit can deal more damage than that, going by the formula, and possibly less than that, if what I wrote before is correct. So, instead of a single value, shouldn't the mini-crit damage be given as "max value - min value"?

Yea, dunno if I got what I'm wondering thru, but still. Adreadline 15:15, 30 October 2011 (PDT)

Damage Resistances in Relation to Critical Hits

I was making a pointless argument on the SPUF site about the Vaccinator. I was making the argument that Resistances were factored prior to crits being multiplied

But, lo and behold, crits are factored after resistances are factored.

Here is the thread that I posted in that gives my math. http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showpost.php?p=34177566&postcount=32

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2g7c501ldz3iqmg/damage.dem

That dem file shows how much damage I received as a Heavy with the Fists of Steel.

Here, I see that the damage calculations are shown that resistances are calculated after the crit damage.

D Holland 11:09, 11 April 2013 (PDT)

Explosive splash damage distance from epicenter to victim (splash damage falloff solved)

Turns out it's mostly public info already.

https://github.com/ValveSoftware/source-sdk-2013/blob/0d8dceea4310fde5706b3ce1c70609d72a38efdf/mp/src/game/shared/sdk/sdk_gamerules.cpp#L231

I graphed multiple base damage values taken straight from the game via a Sourcemod plugin.

https://www.desmos.com/calculator/gxapo6wn5l

For rockets: Valve has told us the radius of rockets and grenades. // Grenades and Stickybombs now have the same base blast radius as rockets. Changed from 159Hu to 146Hu.

1. define EXPLOSION_DIST 146.0

flEndDamage = flDamage - (flDist * flDamage / flDmgRadius * 2.0);

flEndDamage = 90 - (x * 90 / 292);

Values of x come from the distance between the damage position (same as the position of the rocket where it explodes - AKA the explosion's epicenter) to the victim's feet.

The distance for calculation is capped by the damage radius of 146.

I do not know where multiplying the splash radius by 2 comes from. Also, this is only really tested for 90 base damage which stock rocket launcher has.

With distance damage falloff taken into account with the splash as far from the player as possible, the minimum you should hit is 45 * 0.53 = 23.85 = 24. Chdata (talk) 10:16, 3 January 2016 (PST)

Headshot Damage Value Discrepancy

While checking the formula for damage (specifically on the Pain Train, in regards to a discussion about how much more damage the sniper rifle does), I found a discrepancy that I could not resolve. I was able to match the numbers for the Pain Train bullet vulnerability and Natascha/Brass Beast damage resistance, but I could not get the damage vulnerability for the Powerjack to match with in-game numbers. Specifically, I was getting 160 and 480 from uncharged and charged headshots, vs. the 180 and 540 values I see in game (to my recollection, that is.)

Can someone check my math to make sure it's alright? It's been bothering me for some time now...

(Base Damage) × (Splash Modifier) × [(Base Type Resistance/Vulnerability Modifiers) + (Positive Distance-Modifier + 2) × (Critical Resistance/Vulnerability Modifiers)]

Pain Train- 150 * 1 * [(1.1) + (0 + 2) * 1)] = 465

Natascha/Brass Beast- 150 * 1 * [(0.8) + (0 + 2) * 1)] = 420

Powerjack- 150 * 1 * [(1.2) + (0 + 2) * 1)] = 480 ???

So am I missing something? Is there an aspect I'm missing, or another formula I need to run damage through first?

Thanks Chromica (talk) 15:46, 14 July 2017 (PDT)

Fall damage formula.

I have some issues with the proposed formula for fall damage:

• It seems to have random multiplications by constants which could just be evaluated into one multiplication.
• Without any additional comment it is obviously not true - if the formula is correct for big values of velocity, there should be note what is the minimal velocity for which the damage is dealt.
• It contradicts statements about fall damage in Fall damage i.e. 10+C*velocity*current_hp is not 'proportional to max hp', the explicit formulas are (obviously) different. There is also no mention of 20% variance here. (this whole bulletpoint is not an issue with Damage fall damage formula per se, but worth noting)— The preceding unsigned comment was added by Rozpingwiniacz (talk) • (contribs) 13:43 CET, 9 November 2019

Please sign your comments using ~~~~
GrampaSwood (talk) 12:46, 9 November 2019 (UTC)

Okay, sorry for not sticking to etiquette. In regard to the formula - (full hp) heavy falling with velocity ~1050 dealt 58 damage which is consistent with Fall damage formula, while Damage formula predicts 10+9*1050. This 10+3*f(hp,velocity) seems connected to Mantreads formula, but still it is not the result I get (e.g. because of max hp vs current hp difference in both articles) after combining Mantreads and Fall damage formulas. Rozpingwiniacz (talk) 13:28, 9 November 2019 (UTC)

Multiple Damage Types

As Damage#Damage types says, certain weapons deal multiple damage types. I think, however, that the current example of the Cow Mangler 5000 is a poor example, as it's only listed as dealing explosive damage, with the fire damage coming from afterburn. I think the Flare Gun, which is listed as dealing both bullet and fire damage, is a better example. Additionally, I think clarification as to how multiply-typed damage is calculated and how it interacts with damage reduction and vulnerabilities - is it half-and-half? does all the damage just count as both? I'd add it myself, but I don't know how it works. Kestrelguy (talk) 20:15, 23 January 2021 (UTC)

The preceding discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it.