Talk:Horseless Headless Horsemann/Archive 1

The following discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it.

The truth behind the Walk animations?

I was messing around with the Horsemann alone the other night, and I noticed he seems to go from the Eyelander to the Bottle animations when he loses a certain percentage of health, instead of being what it says here. I presume its when he loses 50% HP but I havent tested much... Hammerfan 13:48, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

I have seen him switch between the two animations arbitrarily. I don't think there is a correlation between his animations and his health. Big G 20:06, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

MMO?

Bosses? In my TF2? It's more likely than you think! – Smashman _(talk) 01:28, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Having just killed him for somewhere around the 50th or so time, I'm almost certain that critical hits don't effect him. Or if they do, they're minor. He can't be headshot by a Sniper, and presumably he can't be backstabbed by a Spy. I've been using the Minigun primarily, and he seems to last, at point blank, from 70 to 120 of my ammo units, regardless of crits, with just me in the server. I'm assuming I'm missing A LOT with the 120, damn my horrible Heavy skills. --Lijitsu 06:02, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Also note, if the round ends with him alive, or at least if RED wins, then he can't be killed until the next round. I'll test it out with BLU in a few moments.--Lijitsu 06:39, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Yep, it's if the round ends with him alive. Just tested it with BLU, and put about 130 or more ammo units into him with the Heavy's minigun, no death. Also note he CAN be injured, or presumably even killed, while 'spawning.' The swirling mist stuff that launches people back does NOT stop damage from coming through, just makes it incredibly difficult to melee him.--Lijitsu 06:52, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

I found out a fast way to take him down. Have him distracted and have a Spy backstab him, and it deals 1000 of his health. KABLAM! There's a quarter of your health gone. And yes, with a couple of friends, I've confirmed he also isn't affected by Jarate, and he can be backstabbed, but won't be killed instantly. Milk works on him, though. Thunder 09:45, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

I would like to note that it's nearly impossible to keep up with the Horseman to stab him in game anyway. Even if you did, he could easily slice you apart. ~Renaman 07:10, 07 November 2010 (UTC)

Droppable axe?

After grinding for several hours with other people and killing the horsemann untold times we still haven't seen the Unusual Horseless Headless Horsemann's Headtaker drop. Is this just a rumor or fact? If true, it must have an incredibly low drop rate as I don't know anyone who's found one. Moussekateer 06:48, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

I think it's a rumour based on the unusual scrap drop GeneShark 06:50, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

I haven't found it yet either, and as I stated above I've killed him like 50 times now. Either it's a rumor as Geneshark stated, it doesn't drop unless there's a certain amount of players, or the drop rate is insanely low.--Lijitsu 06:52, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

After browsing the forums I too have come to the conclusion it's either a fake rumor or a 0.000000000000000001% chance of a drop. I'm removing this line from the article. Moussekateer 06:53, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

The axe is not droppable, it is a rumour that was created but proven untrue. thespy 12:18 November 11, 2010 (PST)

Note on credit and being alive

I've not tested this extensively, but the article claims anyone who's damaged him and is alive at it's time of death will receive credit, whereas if you die after damaging him but before he dies it seems you won't recieve credit unless you hit him again. Again, I didn't really test this, it's just a bit of an observation I made after playing after a couple hours. --FEGuy 07:08, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

I haven't tested it much either, but I'm pretty sure it's not everyone. I think it works like a normal kill, so two people are awarded the achievement - the killer and one person with an assist (ie: the last person to have hit him before the killing blow). I say this because I don't think I've ever seen more than 2 people get the achievement at once. -- -- 10:01, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Actually, according to the massive chat spam I was getting, anyone who meets the requirements - hit him once before he dies, without dieing yourself - gets credit for it. Most of us already had the achievement, so very few people actually had a notice posted, but multiple people do gain credit.--Lijitsu 15:55, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Gored! Achievement and Metal

I am finding the achievement isn't as clear cut as 'Hit him with melee and do not die' as well as 'Deal a killing melee blow' from testing it alot. Running a 10man server and repeatedly trying to get the metal, me and several others have *ONLY* received the metal from dealing a direct melee blow to his HEAD. This has been confirmed from me hitting him in the face, while he was doing his spawn animation (terribly difficult, because he has a forced push back during his animation) and another person wrenching his face while he was attacking an ubered heavy. I personally believe this to be the case - a melee headshot will count as 'GORED' and the people gaining the achievement during his 'death' animation have merely slapped his face.

M0d3rn 10:04, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

I can confirm that a melee headshot is NOT required for the Gored achievement. However, the melee blow does need to occur close to the time of death. Hitting the HHH with a melee weapon just after he spawns and waiting until he dies without further interaction will not trigger the Gored achievement. I tried this tactic twice without success. On my third attempt I struck a melee blow to his lower body within a few seconds of his demise and received the achievement. --Elias 17:13, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

The achievement (and getting credit for killing him, for that matter) seems to be a tad fickle. Through trial and error (and lots of deaths), I think that those who did the most damage will get credit for it, while those who did minor damage will not get registered. XANA520 03:08, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Getting the metal like a dirty cheater

I found out you can force him to spawn and get the metal on your own offline server. The console commands are: sv_cheats 1; noclip; hurtme -9999999; bot; tf_halloween_force_boss_spawn; sv_cheats 0; retry Also, the best way to kill him by yourself is to go Demoman, stickyjump on a place he can't reach, and spam stickies at your heart's content.

I had an easier way of it. Bind "sv_cheats 1;hurtme -99999;sv_cheats 0" to a key, spam that like 5 times as a DemoKnight, and bullrush him. You still have to spawn him with "sv_cheats 1;tf_halloween_force_boss_spawn;sv_cheats 0", but he shouldn't be able to kill you unless you just stand there and let him beat on you. This nets you both the metal and the kill. You don't have to use retry, when flicking on sv_cheats like that it doesn't register against your achievements. --Lijitsu 15:59, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Easiest way: When in the main menu, open console: input "map cp_manor_event". When you've loaded into the map, input "sv_cheats 1" and add bots with the command "bot" several times, followed by "tf_halloween_bot_health_base 1" and "tf_halloween_bot_health_per_player 1". When the setup has ended and the control points are active, "tf_halloween_force_boss_spawn". Turn cheats off ("sv_cheats 0"), and rejoin the server using the "retry" command." He should be sitting at the disputed control point with 2 health, throw your magical Frying Pan at his head and you should get both his Hat and the Unusual Metal. BUBBLES TICKLEPANTS 21:03, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

there's a map you can download and it spawns the hhh for you this map is called "Achievement_engineer_v23+" I't spawns a hhh, some exploding pumpkins and several bots that you can also use to get several achievements. The HHH does kill you in one hit even if you use the console command "hurtme -99999999" but you can lower his health using "tf_halloween_bot_health_base 1" and "tf_halloween_bot_health_per_player 1" fighting it with the Heavy weapons guy is not encouraged when you get close to him he teleports close to you, scares you and kills you while your scared.DrakeWane 16:27, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

Horsemann Behavior

Through thorough testing by myself on a listen server, I've found that he has a search radius of sorts around the active control point (or the control point he originally spawned at, I haven't figured that out yet). If there I am not within that radius when he spawns, he will retreat there until I break the boundary. I've also noticed that he will tend to constantly chase me when I am in the radius no matter how much time passes, but if I leave, he will soon stop and again retreat to the control point. I'm guessing that both would apply with more people, but so far I haven't found a cooperative server. DarthVella 12:23, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

It's the active control point, I've capped with him beating on me and he ran off to the other point. As far as I know, the radius doesn't increase with more people.--Lijitsu 16:01, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

I have the feeling it has something to do with the nav mesh. I'll add this to the Strategy section for now. DarthVella 00:46, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

There is a console command controlling the radius in which he will target players. --Mechlord 00:47, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

Holy Crap!

This is so AWESOME! The video is hilarious with the guy just walking around laughing mainiacally and slaughtering those people. Crazy stuff.--Piippo 14:08, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Yup. That's what he does. Pretty fearsome when you're the one he's after. – Smashman _(talk) 14:09, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

The music when he dies is nothing short of epic. --EvilDeadFan 14:19, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Silas Mann

I think we could probably do with more reference to the whole Silas Mann thing. Also, this picture [1] should probably be shown somewhere. Discdeath 19:58, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

Actually, since we really don't know if that's silas Mann, I think that that photo on the page either is Silas Mann or the person who cannot be seen were the photo was ripped is. So maybe we can do some research on wether or not that is him. Diamond_Knight8 9:08

Spawn Requirements

Just got done running a Round Robin Gift Grab. We ran 10 people: 6 playing, 4 spec'ing (they were idling and AFK). Gifts were spawning fine but The Horseless Headless Horsemann would not spawn. For amusement and other's achievements I bound a key to spawn him (and as a prerequisite enable then disable cheats). I speculate that gifts require 10 people on the server but The Horseless Headless Horsemann needs 10 actual players. Ajburges 09:58, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

Yea we came to the same conclusion on our server. No gifts spawn if there are less than 10 people connected to the server. The moderators came to the same conlusion too. Moussekateer 10:03, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

To expand on the 10 actual players thing, bots don't appear to count for the 10 required, as well as not having any effect on the Horsemann's health increase. XANA520 03:06, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Attack height

Needs further verification, but he hit me when I double jumped over his head from the hole in the building near point 1 when he was on the ground. Does his attack have a higher than proportionate vertical range? Ajburges 10:01, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

He does seem to have a rather ridiculous hitting range in terms of height. More testing seems to be required to figure out his exact or approximate reach, though getting the bugger to react the way you want him to might be a bit of a hassle. XANA520 03:04, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

Dead Ringing Spies? Current info is self-contradicting.

Dead Ringing Spies will survive the attack.

The Spy's Backstab takes away 1000 of his health, however, he will immediately be the next target of the Horsemann. However, the Horsemann can be defeated with five to ten backstabs. However, try to be careful, as Spies are ill-equipped for fighting him unless he's distracted; even with a Dead Ringer, the Horsemann's hit will kill you.

This area around Spies in this topic seems to argue with itself. Not only does that one point say "however" three times, but it's also contradictory to other parts of the article. I can't edit it myself, for I don't actually know the right answer, but this certainly is confusing and misleading. If anyone does know how it works and how to say it, please rephrase this part. Thank you. Acoccimi 08:56, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

The Dead Ringer does save you from death, and the damage reduction works, however the HHH will still chase you even cloaked. I've edited the parts of the article claiming that it does not save you. E.coli 05:35, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

Boss' Kill is really 'Natural'

According to the console, when the boss kills you its considered suicide rather than the boss killing you. which explains why it only shows the death symbol when it kills you. M-NINJA 05:38, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

Kill icon

I don't think the killicon, one image, should get its own section. I think it should be moved to directly above the picture of the Horsemann, or below, if possible. --MasterOfTheXP 19:57, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

HP - Serverside

Is it worth adding that there is a server mod that displays the HHH's current hp on the players screen? I was on a server yesterday that was using one. THD 21:00, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Not really noteworthy I think. There are many server mods involving the HHH. Moussekateer 21:02, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

Just a memo

It should be noted that the kill icon for the Headsmann is incorrect. The actual icon that pops up for every time that the Headsmann kills someone is just the image of his Axe. --Renaman 00:49, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

Pretty sure its the axe in the back of the person? Moussekateer 00:50, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

I've checked. It's just the image of the Axe. --Renaman 00:53, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

For me it's just like the one in the picture, as well as for everyone elses' TF2 I've seen. Sure you don't have a modification that makes it just the Headtaker? --MasterOfTheXP 23:28, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

I've checked and it's definitely the one shown. Not sure why you guys are seeing something different. Moussekateer 23:29, 9 November 2010 (UTC)

Check the video. It's the axe in the back. Jdcoolha 16:11, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

More than just the basic demoman animations were used

Using source SDK, i found that the HHH has all the demoman taunts added as well, including the thriller taunt, the shaking butt, and the unused bottle taunt, etc. M-NINJA 01:35, 13 November 2010 (UTC)

Console commands trivia

Is it really necessary? I don't think it belongs to the trivia section. --WhistleTeam 00:26, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

About backstabbing the Horsemann

I know this is late, but I just need to say this once and for all.

Whoever is claiming a backstab deals massive damage to the Horsemann, please stop. This is completely false and you probably never actually tested it in a fool-proof environment.

It deals regular spy knife swipe damage. (Unless kritzed, which results in 3x base damage)

I have access to a map where I can get the horseman to stand still without attacking me, even after Halloween. I believe I know what I'm talking about.

Here's a screenshot (www.sourceop.com/hell-met/horsemanne.jpg) showing what actually happens.

Thanks.

Hell-met 20:18, 27 November 2010 (UTC)

Relevant Quote

Is the quote on this page accurate? That seems to be just a standard Soldier domination line rather then anthing to do with the Horseless Headless Horsemann. Also the quote's tag misidentifies the Horseless Headless Horsemann as the 'undead horseless horsemen'. I think I will change this, but what do people think about the quote for this page? --The preceding unsigned comment was added by MEDUNN (talk) • (contribs)

It's referring to the fact that the HHH is not human. Another unused response could be better, "C'mere pumpkin!". But I'm not sure. Please remember to sign your comments on talk pages with ~~~~. – Smashman _(talk) 14:04, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

I was thinking more something from the blog about the Horseman, it just seemed that the Soldier's quote wasn't anything to do with the horseman or the event but a domination line that has been present from the beginning. I changed the name in the quote to Horseless Headless Horsemann anyway, 'horsemen' (plural) is wrong irregardless of whether this was just a description.MEDUNN 15:37, 29 December 2010 (UTC)

Silas Mann's... Nametags? I think not...

Under the picture of Silas Mann, it says "Presumably Silas Mann in the Mann family portrait. Notice that he is holding keys and nametags, and something is burning in the fireplace." Nametags? Those are his gloves that he's holding. Why would these be nametags? Unless someone opposes this observation, I'll be editing that out. -- CptObvious 05:15, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

I second this- edit it out, or I'll do the honors. WoWkemon90 02:06, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Properly Spawning the HHH

Should we add this?

The HHH can still be spawned using the following sequence of console commands

"sv_cheats 1" tf_force Holiday 2" (0 is none, 1 id ???, 2 is Halloween, 3 is birthday) ent_create headless_hatman" or maybe the "force_Halloween_boss spawn" one?

I know for a fact that the ent_create works, it'll spawn the HHH on any map, as long as tf_holiday is set to 2, otherwise you get the model error

Tried this in TF2 Beta but it didn't give me achievement. Any other ways of getting it? --SandeProElite 14:11, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

Affected by?

What's with this new bit in the infobox?

Are you seriously going to put all the special unlocks in there?

That's really dumb. You should instead put "Unaffected by : On-hit effects, bleed, jarate, stun, knockback" etc.

Hell-met 23:02, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

Headless?...

Why is he referred to as 'headless' when he blatantly has a head? — The preceding unsigned comment was added by Moth (talk) • (contribs)

It's pumpkin, therefore probably isn't his original head. » Cooper Kid (Blether · Contreebs) 16:42, 25 July 2011 (PDT)

Backstab

What happens when a Spy baclstabs him? Does he automatically die or what happens? --Blitzinbarrage 18:25, 13 August 2011 (PDT)

Gosh, I know this is written somewhere on the Wiki... It does a fair chunk of damage, but it's not an instant kill. 600, I believe. --SilverHammer 18:28, 13 August 2011 (PDT)

I'm sure I remember reading that somewhere too... argh, but where? » Cooper Kid (blether·contreebs) 18:21, 21 August 2011 (PDT)

According to the history of the page, 1,000 damage. Someone removed it a long time ago (stating incorrectly that it did not effect the HHH), and it doesn't seem to have ever been reverted. Might be worth adding back in. Balladofwindfishes 18:25, 21 August 2011 (PDT)

Might be worth testing it, just in case. Any volunteers? » Cooper Kid (blether·contreebs) 18:37, 21 August 2011 (PDT)

Half-Zatoichi - Bug?

I'm not sure I would count it as a bug that killing the HHH doesn't enable you to sheathe the Half-Zatoichi. It sounds more like trivia. It just wouldn't make sense to have a blood-splattered sword after *ahem* killing something that has no blood. Superfield 11:18, 25 August 2011 (PDT)

Plus the weapon is specific to decapitating players, and the HHH is neither a player nor is he able to be decapped. Balladofwindfishes 11:21, 25 August 2011 (PDT)

Yep, sounds more like a trivia, but I'm not sure if it's worth even that. real_alien (T/C) 11:22, 25 August 2011 (PDT)

I'd say so. It's a piece of information about an unlikely, but possible, situation that you probably never thought of, but would wonder about if you did. Listing those seems to be a big part of the appeal of game-based wikis. Superfield 12:23, 25 August 2011 (PDT)

Does he trigger any on-kill attributes? Like the Kunai/Eyelander? Because it might be easier to just put it into the article (rather than trivia), that making the final blow with an on-kill attribute causes the on-kill attribute to be ignored. Balladofwindfishes 14:05, 25 August 2011 (PDT)

Good question. I'll attempt to kill him with the Candy Cane equipped and see if he drops a health pack. Though I doubt it. Superfield 06:55, 26 August 2011 (PDT)

Sorry about never posting the link to that video, but here it is. Proof that killing the HHH with the Half-Zatoichi doesn't allow you to sheathe the weapon. Superfield 14:07, 21 October 2011 (PDT)

Related Achievements

Should enviromental achievements be added to this page, as the Horsemann can be used to get them?MEDUNN 09:27, 4 September 2011 (PDT)

Map where he spawns

The article says that the HHH only spawns on Mann Manor, but it also spawns on Harvest_event. Either that or most people hack that map. Can someone confirm this to me please? Shingo 23:13, 23 October 2011 (PDT)

He's only meant to spawn at the manor, but some servers force him to appear on other maps. It's quite common to find him on trade servers for people to get the haunted scrap. » Cooper Kid (blether) • (contreebs) 05:28, 24 October 2011 (PDT)

Slowdown

I have recently used my Natasha to help my Pyro teammate escape death. But on the page, it says that the horseman can't be slowed down through any means. Please confirm or deny my observations --Kajoman 16:01, 2 November 2011 (PDT)

Denied. He is completely unaffected by Natascha. What you witnessed/experienced might've been a number of things.

• The Horsemann had changed targets during his attack
• The Horsemann was in the middle of turning around, (he doesn't experience nearly as much ground friction as players, meaning he'll appear to slide around alot)
• The Horsemann wasn't after the Pyro to begin with.
• The Pyro escaped the Horsemann's "patrol" range, meaning that he hesitates for a second then changes targets.
• Your eyes are playing tricks on you.

Chimple - Contact 18:31, 11 November 2011 (PST)

Page Overhaul

Since MONOCULUS's page differs greatly from the Horsemann's, should we change the Horsemann's to match that of MONOCULUS? Some things being, moving the Match-ups and General strategy to Community Mann Manor Strategy. Yay? Nay? Chimple - Contact 18:31, 11 November 2011 (PST)

The problem with that is that it is possible to spawn the Horsemann on other maps, so you can find him in places other than Mann Manor. I don't think the same is true of MONOCULUS!
» Cooper Kid (blether) • (contreebs) 03:45, 12 November 2011 (PST)

You may actually, in fact, spawn Monoculus on any map. The underworld/portals/teleportation, however, will not work. But he may be spawned using the console or server-side plugins. It seems a little inconsistent to have two bosses have completely different page layouts. Chimple - Contact 16:25, 12 December 2011 (PST)

You have my  Support then! » Cooper Kid (blether) • (contreebs) 17:15, 12 December 2011 (PST)

Help

Can you still get the axe and huanted scrap mental if i was to play now Tlrd 14:46, 14 August 2012 (PDT)

i don't think so. I have killed him several times after manually spawning him, and i walked over his gibs and nothing. Nat.ingledow 20:56, 14 August 2012 (PDT)

non-official appearance instant HHH deaths

has anyone else found this? I was just messing around earlier on my own server on Upward, and decided to spawn the HHH. I then found that every time he even touches the payload cart, he instantly dies. He also gets killed instantly by Well's trains. I will try it out on other Payload maps in a bit, maybe later today. Nat.ingledow 03:51, 15 August 2012 (PDT)

spawn with bots?

I have been wondering - it says in the article that the Horseless Headless Horsemann will spawn with at least 10 players or sommat. I have tried launching the map and adding 10 bots and nothing happened. Does it have to be 10 human players? thx Nat.ingledow 03:58, 15 August 2012 (PDT)

Making someone HHH?

I have seen people in servers make the players HHH, such as one MvM server I played in. The admin made every single one of us HHH and we had OP health and damage (e.g. killing a tank in one hit) and also the ability to scare the bots by calling for Medic. Anyone knows the console command or something? TheNenemon 02:35, 8 October 2012 (PDT)

Axtinquisher/postal pummeler damage, is it really a bug?

It states in the bugs list that these weapons do normal damage and can randomly crit the HHH. I do not believe that this is a bug. It specifically states in the stats for each weapon that it does 50% damage to PLAYERS and will not randomly crit PLAYERS who are not ignited. Last I checked, the HHH was not a player, but an npc. Therefore this should not be on the bugs list. Thoughts?

And while the half zatoichi doesnt specify players, it is likely that it only restores health when killing another player (since I doubt it works on engi buildings too)

Emrfish6 (talk) 14:44, 22 July 2013 (PDT)

Redirect

Someone make HHH redirect here. HHH is an abbreviation for the name. ErnieTheGreatest (talk) 17:48, 17 August 2013 (PDT)

Player targeting update

User:Whurr and anyone else.

Whurr, it looks like you rewrote the Player targeting to be accurrate and specific to Mann Manor where the HHH spawns at each point, however the discription is now less appropriate to all of the other maps that spawn HHH.

On Hellstone, HHH does not spawn at the point, the distance of chasing is not referenced to the point, and the distance of chasing from the HHH spawn in the Horsemanns House seems shorter.

On Brimstone, HHH spanws from two leaf piles. Chase range from the leaf piles might be 1500, but maybe longer?

I don't know if there is a range limit on Carnival of Carnage.

etc.

The HHH Mechanics section should describe general HHH Mechanics, not just the HHH Mechanics of Mann Manor. The Mechanics on this page should only be the most general, and should not try to cover every map-specific behavior, leaving that to the map pages.

M I K A D O 282 ⊙⊙⊙⊙⊙⊙ ⊙⊙ ⊙⊙ (Talk with Mikado282 (SM)) | (contribs) (Help Wanted!) 02:39, 12 August 2022 (UTC)

The preceding discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it.