Help talk:Style guide/Quotes
New guideline and change to existing guideline
I'd like to propose a new guideline:
- 1. Quotes should only come from Team Fortress 2 or related media
- This means that any quotes from other games, movies, clips, etc. should not be used. I think this can introduce a lot of confusion if we start including non-TF2 stuff. Since I had to wait until this became a problem instead of making it preventative, an example of this can be found here and here. Even as someone who isn't new to TF2 or even the Wiki, reading a quote from "The Guardian of Metal" or "Lars Halford" confuses me because neither of these characters are even mentioned on that page. I think this just serves to add unnecessary confusion, especially as TF2 has quite some obscure characters in its lore.
- 2. Specific quotes guideline should be removed
- I do not believe this guideline brings any value. The biggest example of this is the Kritzkrieg and the Roaming Roman, both of these quotes have a direct relation to them (the Kritzkrieg being a simple and boring description of its ÜberCharge, while the Roaming Roman's is a Latin phrase which is something people often attribute to the Roman empire). I replaced the Kritzkrieg quote with a more humorous one that isn't a simple "this weapon gives crits". I also replaced the Roaming Roman's quote with one I found more fitting. However, both of these had to be removed due to replacing a specific quote. I don't believe this is a productive guideline, as a quote like the Conga's falls under this guideline, but can also very easily be kept for the reason "this quote fits the article much better than any other quote".
I would like to know people's opinions on these two.
| s | GrampaSwood 
(talk) (contribs) 10:06, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
- I think it should be allowed to use quotes from other games/media in the case of promotional items but not other wise. Since I'm the one that "made it a problem" and added the Brutal Legend quotes you're singleing out I will admit that in hindsight I probably could've/should've tweaked the descriptions to make them a bit more clear. I think using a quote from the other game is a nice touch and can be kinda fun but I agree that just "Lars Halford" is pretty vague if someone isn't really familiar with the other game. I think a simple link to the character on the Brütal Legend wiki or changing the description to something like "Lars Halford, on haircare in Brütal Legend" would solve the confusion.
For the specific quote guideline I think more flexibility in the quotes is a good thing and that your example of the Kritzkrieg is totally valid and would be a better quote. Mediarch
♥ Talk ♥ My Edits 14:34, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
- The issue isn't your edits specifically, they're just examples. I posted about this in the IRC but I had to wait until something like this actually happened to make a post about it. It's nothing personal. As for clearing it up, requiring a separate wiki page to know who the character is is exactly the issue. Specifying that he's talking about hairstyles in the game would break another guideline of unnecessary quote descriptions. | s | GrampaSwood
(talk) (contribs) 14:40, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
- I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill. I don't think it's necessary to call it a "problem," these quotes have largely existed in terms of the context of promotional items anyway, as the list below shows, and as Mediarch stated in their reply. I think the general understanding is that promotional things involve other characters; we don't have to be sure players "understand" who a character is -- that's not our place, we don't elaborate on who Lara Croft is when we mention her in the Jungle Booty page. Your issue seems to be "but they might think they're a Team Fortress character, and they're not," so I think if we're going to do anything, I think we should specify which game a quote comes from as a link to Wikipedia, and allow third-party dialogue quotes on promotional item pages exclusively, if you really think we need a restriction. —
01:34, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill. I don't think it's necessary to call it a "problem," these quotes have largely existed in terms of the context of promotional items anyway, as the list below shows, and as Mediarch stated in their reply. I think the general understanding is that promotional things involve other characters; we don't have to be sure players "understand" who a character is -- that's not our place, we don't elaborate on who Lara Croft is when we mention her in the Jungle Booty page. Your issue seems to be "but they might think they're a Team Fortress character, and they're not," so I think if we're going to do anything, I think we should specify which game a quote comes from as a link to Wikipedia, and allow third-party dialogue quotes on promotional item pages exclusively, if you really think we need a restriction. —
- The issue isn't your edits specifically, they're just examples. I posted about this in the IRC but I had to wait until something like this actually happened to make a post about it. It's nothing personal. As for clearing it up, requiring a separate wiki page to know who the character is is exactly the issue. Specifying that he's talking about hairstyles in the game would break another guideline of unnecessary quote descriptions.
- I don't really see it as a problem, per se, so long as the reader is made aware of this. As a compromise, we could simply place a permanent notice exclusively on promotional item pages that may contain media or references to characters from another game. See User:Wookipan/Template:Promo notice. Otherwise, HatGuy's approach would suffice.
- As for specific quotes, I'm kind of neutral on that. In terms of consistency, the vast majority of articles make use of character quotes, and while I believe some specific quotes provide a backstory on the item, they can be rather dull, except when they're not. I suppose it also creates some contrast so as to not having to reuse the same character quotes over and over. — Wookipan (talk | contribs) 21:35, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
- I think any quote that's good enough (like the FAN's) can stay for generally just being a good quote, and other quotes wouldn't be any better. The only thing that the specific quotes guideline protects are bad quotes. | s | GrampaSwood (talk) (contribs) 07:17, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
- I think any quote that's good enough (like the FAN's) can stay for generally just being a good quote, and other quotes wouldn't be any better. The only thing that the specific quotes guideline protects are bad quotes.
Here's all the current quotes I could find that come from other media. I know there's at least a couple more floating around but I went through the promotional items list and these are what I could find. Some of them do a better job of providing context for themselves than others but this is what I could dig up
- Rooftop Rebel - This one technically isn't a promotional item and is just a reference but I remembered the quote because I tried to find the audio from L4D2
- Ellis' Cap
- Bill's Hat
- Baronial Badge
- Criminal Cloak
- Scrap Pack - at least I think this one comes from the Shoot Many Robots description
- Aperture Labs Hard Hat
- Companion Cube Pin
- Resurrection Associate Pin
- Long Fall Loafers
- License to Maim
- Dangeresque, Too? - at least I think, I could be wrong on this one
- Dead Cone
- Brain Bucket
- Samson Skewer
- Warsworn Helmet
- Bolgan Family Crest
- Stockbroker's Scarf
- Foster's Facade
- Merc Medal
- Hitt Mann Badge
- Pip-Boy
- Company Man
- Purity Fist
- Mister Bubbles
- Firefly
- Arkham Cowl
- Dashin' Hashshashin
- MK 50
- Brütal Bouffant
- Shred Alert
Mediarch ♥ Talk ♥ My Edits 15:30, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
- I think it should be exclusive to promotional items. However, I think this still causes a bit of trouble with the Poker Night items, as they are based on things that are not from those games. - BrazilianNut (talk) 09:32, 23 April 2024 (UTC)
